Practice Makes Permanent

[NEZTOK]

OK, I've seen Noteboat (and others) write these words many times and I've always thought to myself...really? I don't get it. I mean if someone points out something and I WANT to change it, I would work on it. Why would someone continue to do something that was slowing them down? I need some "practice makes permanent" examples. Anybody?

[Alan Green]

The trouble is, if you practise something which you're not doing properly, you develop ->some<- ability at it, but not sufficient to make it work for you; so Practice Makes Permanent

Where practice does make perfect is if you're practicing properly in the first place. I believe Jamey Andreas sums it up with the line "Perfect practice makes perfect" or something along those lines.

[NEZTOK]

I just don't think it's permanent. If so, play your way and then learn the correct way. And hey, you'll have two techniques. One bad, and one good Eventually, the bad one will be history...

[NoteBoat]

Eventually can be a long time.

My point in saying "practice makes permanent" is to highlight the essence of practice: we practice is to make our motions habitual - you want to do them without thinking about them. When you succeed at doing that, they're ingrained. They're as close to permanent as you can get. Are they literally permanent? No. But on a slightly longer time frame, neither am I.

On the other hand, the saying "practice makes perfect" simply isn't true. If you spend thousands of hours repeating something badly, you will NOT perfect anything - except playing it badly. And if you finally get around to choosing to do it a different way, all that bad practice will be an impediment to change.

I know from personal experience - early on in my playing career, I discovered I'd been using an inefficient fingering for a particular chord change. Yes, I was able to break the habit. But it took me FOUR YEARS of being constantly vigilant about it. That's roughly twice as long as I was doing it wrong in the first place. And it took far more effort to break the habit than it would have if I'd simply thought it through from the beginning and practiced it right.

[NEZTOK]

http://sonictruths.net/2011/08/never-be ... education/

[corbind]

I know from personal experience - early on in my playing career, I discovered I'd been using an inefficient fingering for a particular chord change. Yes, I was able to break the habit. But it took me FOUR YEARS of being constantly vigilant about it.

I know this is swaying away from the OP topic, yet I must know....

What chord (and fingering) were you playing before needed to move to the second chord?
What chord (and wrong fingering) was the wrong succeeding chord?
What chord (and efficient fingering) was the right succeeding chord?

[music2jam]

I think as what I understand everybody needs permanent practice to perfect a particular song. If you start with the wrong style of playing it will become a bad habit... So better start slow but done correctly rather than go fast then start all over again because of the mistake done in the early stage....

[monica f]

Hi,
I say that the saying "practice makes perfect" simply is true. Let us talk about one example. An 18 years young boy starts driving in formula 1 racing cars, at an initial stage he drives so roughly that it can not b explained... But as the days pass over, he improves till the day comes, when he wins the international prize or trophy for racing...! I support 100% this statement.
Thanks

[NoteBoat]

Monica, the formula 1 driver who improves doesn't do so because of repetition - he improves because he's doing things differently than he used to, and those changes have led to improvement.

While it's true that practice can build on improvements, it's not automatic. You have to:

1. Notice where you need improvement
2. Try something (anything) different
3. See if it produced a positive change
4. If it did, see if you can refine it to produce even more change; if it didn't, try something else.

The results are a product of practice combined with a process focused on continuous improvement. Practice without the process won't help - he'll be just as bad, but with more hours behind the wheel.

When you don't know what the problem is, it can be hit or miss, and that's the issue I have with the saying. To illustrate: let's say you mispronounce a word. You can say that word every day for the rest of your life, but unless you notice that most people don't say it the way you do, it's not going to change - in spite of all the practice saying it. Substitute how you hold your pick or the angle of your fingers for the word, and that's what I'm getting at... practice ingrains habits. Perfection is only the outcome if the practice is perfect.

[greybeard]

Monica,

an 18 year old that starts in F1 will not see 19. No-one gets into F1 without a long background in other formula groups - most start as kids in Karting.

They have spent their lives learning their trade - to become good enough to drive an F1 car. They learnt the "correct" way to handle a car with the power-to-weight ratio of an F1 car at an early age and under strict tuition. There is very little room for bootstrapping - F1 cars are totally unforgiving.

I'm of the old school - you have to learn the "correct" way before you can confidently take the "cheaty" path.

[almann1979]

When I used teach karate I always told the students that the saying PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT was wrong and that the saying should be PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.

I agree with noteboats saying, he basically means that if you pratice properly with good form always in mind, you will make good progress. If you are slap happy with the way you practice, you will burn bad habits that are hard to overcome.

[chykcha]

The trouble is, if you practise something which you're not doing properly, you develop ->some<- ability at it, but not sufficient to make it work for you; so Practice Makes Permanent

Where practice does make perfect is if you're practicing properly in the first place. I believe Jamey Andreas sums it up with the line "Perfect practice makes perfect" or something along those lines.

Bingo. the important thing is that the time you spend practiicing means nothing unless it's effective and productive. conversely no matter what you practice you remember out of habit.