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Y9W48 Two Doors

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Postby jamestoffee » September 26th, 2011, 6:29 am

Part II -write a song

Y9W48 Two Doors

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11098209

The princess and the pauper; Daddy won't approve
Fill up the arena; bring in the accused
The King makes an offer no one can refuse
Two fates before him; blindly he'll choose

Chorus
Two doors waiting to take his life
A stranger chosen to be his wife
A hungry tiger ready to strike
Two doors waiting to take his life
Two doors waiting to take his life

A glance at his princess he looks for her sign
After sleepless nights of torment the moment arrives
Give him to the woman or be killed by a beast
The silent signal sent that no one else perceives

chorus

Without hesitation it's the door on the right
And as it opened; oh the look in his eyes
Which came out open door the tiger or lady?
It's not for me to say, so I'll answer with maybe

chorus




Part I -A list of conflicts in some songs:

(I can't get no) Satisfaction- Singer is not satisfied

I Am A Gummy Bear- Singer is a candy :P

I can't make you love me – Singer can't make the singee feel the same way

The End Of The Innocence –Singer's life is changing in negative ways

Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough -Singer keeps thinking something's gonna change but doesn't

Deperado -Singer is favoring the pursuit of wealth over relationships

Only A Lad -The little man “Johnny” had no gratitude to society

Landslide –Singer is getting older

Need You Now – Singers want to be back in a relationship that hurt them
Last edited by jamestoffee on October 1st, 2011, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby John Sargent » September 26th, 2011, 8:34 am

I'm a Little Teapot - singer is height challenged and obese?
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Postby jamestoffee » September 26th, 2011, 4:31 pm

MrEWorm wrote:I'm a Little Teapot - singer is height challenged and obese?

Stout if you please....not obese :lol:
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Postby Nick » September 27th, 2011, 12:47 pm

ah-ha...you need to better define the conflict too. Believe me it will result in a much more powerful song core if you do.

Conflict is when a choice must be made between two stimuli.

What is the conflict in Satisfaction? Heck I just read it twice and I don't know. It isn't about having and wanting. Is it about being judged by what is commercially acceptable? Something like Mick wants to do things this way, but the radio and the TV guy or society in general are saying that isn't the cool way. A conflict about the choice between art and commerce perhaps? That's a tough one.

Some conflict is easier to identify. Landslide for instance, I think the conflict is "do I choose to be who I have become and risk losing you or do I hide who I am and let you continue to love the facade?"
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My songs (Some not suitable for minors)

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Postby jamestoffee » October 1st, 2011, 8:52 am

Nick wrote:ah-ha...you need to better define the conflict too.


Well, I think I did better in part II by finding a story with conflict :D

I found out what it is like to stick with an idea too long this week and almost come up empty. I was trying to kill two birds with one song/stone.....but it didn't work out.....Anyway, I did come across the story that seemed to fit.
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Postby CitiZenNoir » October 1st, 2011, 10:01 am

Hey James :D

Interesting story - I can see Cecil B. DeMille directing it! :wink:

As far as conflict (as pertains to the assignment), I'm not sure you quite got there.

First off - Who is the hero, and who is the story about?
The 'pauper' or the King?
The King comes off as the antagonist - The one who stands in the way of the union between the pauper and the princess....
But he seems to hold a major place in the story.

If the pauper is the Hero, where is his internal conflict? That is to say, where are his feelings?
He seems to be forced into choosing between two doors by the king.
Which amounts to really, nothing more than a 50/50 coin toss (which can be used successfully in a way like say, No Country for Old Men).

In The Monkee's song - What am I Doin' Hangin' 'Round -, the Hero feels pressured to leave the girl he has fallen in love with because he feels he can't miss that train out of town. Why he feels that pressure is unknown, and that adds a touch of suspense to the story. His internal conflict is in the decision to stay with the girl and miss the train he 'could not miss', or run for that train and lose this exciting new love. He wants to stay with the girl. He needs to get out of town on this train. He can have one or the other, and it's his decision. All the while we know he's running out of time - More suspense.

What would we do!? I know what I would do - Stay with the girl :wink:
So, of course, what does the Hero in the song do - He leaves on the train.
How does that make us feel?

And that is where your story ends.... After the choice is made. But where was the anguish in weighing a decision?
You had, waiting for the moment to happen - But that's not quite the same. A condemned man feels the same weight - It's a common Film Noir ploy called: Man Under Sentence of Death (Only in Film Noir, the Hero must choose to be the condemned man all on his own - See, Burt Lancaster in The Killers).
When the time came to make a decision in your story, it came 'without hesitation'. That's sort of the opposite of internal conflict. The choice cannot be made lightly, and it must have consequences. You have to give something up to gain something else. If your pauper chooses the right door and gets the princess - What has he sacrificed to get her????

Then your story ends, leaving us without resolution.

In the Monkee's song, he makes the decision to leave on the train. But it doesn't end there. We find that a year later,
he still has great regret for leaving her behind.
Not only that, but he plans to go back to try and find her, thus turning the chorus around from it's original intent.
We don't get total resolution on that one either - Cos we don't know if he was successful in getting her back (Having his cake and eating it too).... But we're left with the thought of him riding the same train back to her with the hope that it all works out. So, although unfinished, it has left us with HOPE of a fairytale ending :D

I don't know this for certain, but right at the moment, I'm thinking maybe your perspective is off for this....?
You seem to be using an omniscient narrator. Perhaps a first person account would be better - As Both the Monkee's song and the Naked Eyes song are in first person (my examples for this weeks assignment).
I think to be convincing, maybe the Hero must portray their feelings and emotions themselves....?

Ken
"The man who has begun to live more seriously within
begins to live more simply without"
-Ernest Hemingway

"A genuine individual is an outright nuisance in a factory"
-Orson Welles
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Postby CitiZenNoir » October 1st, 2011, 11:28 am

I wrote:
"What would we do!? I know what I would do - Stay with the girl
So, of course, what does the Hero in the song do - He leaves on the train.
How does that make us feel?"


In the first two verses of the song, it's set up so that he mentions the lack of time (suspense), the interactive love with the beautiful local girl, and his inner pulling despite how he feels to leave on the train (pressure and inner conflict).

Now, he must clearly make a decision as to what to do. And what happens next in the song?
They don't tell us what his decision is at all.... That part is left out.
It goes right from the romantic setting of them kissing in the garden, to a whole year later with him having regrets over leaving her and wanting to go back.

Do we find out what his decision was? Yes
Do they tell us directly? No

Why do they do it this way?
Cos it's a SONG, not a Novel.
There isn't time to explain every little thing.
Besides, your listener will be much happier without being clubbed over the head with unnecessary details,
and being spoon-fed things that they are smart enough to pick up on their own.

As a writer, you have the power to manipulate the time continuum. It's essential that you remember that.
And in so doing, you have the freedom to have things explained without explaining them directly.

It's not being vague.... Don't confuse it with that.
The first train song we discussed - Driver 8, was vague.
This is not at all a vague song. In fact, it doesn't get too much more perfect than this (The Monkee's song).

Don't know if that has anything to do with anything, but it's one of my pet peeves and I had the opportunity to say something about it here. Thankx for indulging me :D

Ken
"The man who has begun to live more seriously within
begins to live more simply without"
-Ernest Hemingway

"A genuine individual is an outright nuisance in a factory"
-Orson Welles
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Postby jamestoffee » October 1st, 2011, 4:06 pm

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the reply. There is a lot there which is great. :wink:

....so where I think I have missed the mark is in the clarification or assumption of what is already known in about the story.

The lady behind one door is not the princess.

The conflict is internal for the princess.....To let her lover die by the tiger or see him live with another woman as his wife.

She makes the choice......the pauper looks for her signal as to which to choose......he doesn't hesitate because he trusts her decision.

Here is the wiki version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady,_or_the_Tiger%3F

Thanks again for the listen and post :D


James
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Postby John Sargent » October 1st, 2011, 8:05 pm

I took my ukulele to Houston for the weekend to visit some of my grand kids.The biggest conflict is who gets to ride shotgun in my rental car.
I'll give yours a listen when I return early next week. As always, a good read.
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Postby CitiZenNoir » October 1st, 2011, 11:24 pm

Hey James :D

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that story :(

Thankx for clearing that up for me though! :)

Don't know what it is that had me so confused....?
I think it may be because of the way it jumps around.... I just couldn't get a handle on it.
Ex - It starts out, The princess and the pauper.... Omniscient narrator?
Daddy wont approve.... Om Narrator again, or the princess?

The next line could be spoken by the king.
Then back to Om narrator.

Then, yeah.... I remember stumbling a bit with the 'stranger' part.

Then the next two lines were about the pauper.... Or was the 'sleepless nights' about the princess?
The next two about the princess - But they had me baffled?
I wasn't sure what was going on by then at all.
The line - Give him to a woman (the princess), or be killed by a beast (the pauper), seems to have lost it's orientation.

Though the inner conflict you describe the princess having to deal with sounds legit....
Where do we get a sense of that?
I'd really like to see more of that exposed.
I think this story has tremendous potential 8)

Ken
"The man who has begun to live more seriously within
begins to live more simply without"
-Ernest Hemingway

"A genuine individual is an outright nuisance in a factory"
-Orson Welles
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Postby jamestoffee » October 2nd, 2011, 2:42 am

Hi MrEWorm,

Thanks for the read. I hope you had a good trip. :D

CitiZenNoir wrote:Then the next two lines were about the pauper.... Or was the 'sleepless nights' about the princess?
The next two about the princess - But they had me baffled?
I wasn't sure what was going on by then at all.
The line - Give him to a woman (the princess), or be killed by a beast (the pauper), seems to have lost it's orientation.


At least your observations reinforce one of the struggles I had which was how to pick the best point of view....maybe I should have tried another song form as well instead of verse chorus. I'll go through the lines for clarification, but I put the responsibility on me (the writer) not the listener for not being clearer......like a joke that isn't funny, because you have to explain it :roll:

The princess and the pauper; Daddy won't approve -Narr.
Fill up the arena; bring in the accused -King (sound byte :roll: )
The King makes an offer no one can refuse -Narr.
Two fates before him; blindly he'll choose -Narr.

Chorus -Narr.
Two doors waiting to take his life
A stranger chosen to be his wife
A hungry tiger ready to strike
Two doors waiting to take his life
Two doors waiting to take his life

A glance at his princess he looks for her sign -the boyfriend looking for the princess' desire
After sleepless nights of torment the moment arrives - the princess'
Give him to the woman or be killed by a beast -her choices
The silent signal sent that no one else perceives -she sends him the signal he is looking for-but we (the audience) don't know which she chose

chorus

Without hesitation it's the door on the right -he loves her and acts without hesitation on her signal
And as it opened; oh the look in his eyes -we (the audience) know he knows now, but we don't know
Which came out open door the tiger or lady? -narr to the audience
It's not for me to say, so I'll answer with maybe -narr to the audience

chorus

Like you said, I think the story has a lot of potential, but I'd have to work around more to figure out a better delivery of the idea.

Thanks again, Ken :D

James
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