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Help Choosing A Multi Effects Floor Unit

Here is a forum for everything between the guitar (here) and the amp (there). If you want to know about cables, effects pedals, multieffects, noisegates, line drivers, phasers, distortion post your questions in here.

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Postby seebee » September 12th, 2010, 8:06 am

Hi - new to this forum. Looking forward to any help, and hopefully providing some help as well. Been playing for 20 + years, lessons since I was 8 years old in every genre. I'm a blues / funk rocker at heart, but when I'm alone, I crank up the gain, and practice speed picking with classical music. - although, I practice everything clean until I get it right. Anyway, here's my deal:

Basement flooded, and my DOD vgs50 was one of the casualties. I have not paid much attention to effects in a LOOONG time. What I'm looking for is pretty simple I'd think, but I know I'll never get it perfect. I'm very happy with my amp for distortion. I'd really just need delay, maybe flange, wah pedal, volume control, and a noise gate run through the effects loop without sucking too much out of the tone for my dirty sounds. For clean, well my amp's clean is weak (plus, I normally play an Ibanex RG.) So, clean, I'd probably wanna a few choices for modeling, not sure what, I just know I'd like the options. With delay, chorus, and reverb, I know I can get a decent clean sound through my amp, so It's not like I'd be COUNTING on an effects unit's modeling to to be some kind of savior or anything, but it would be nice to try. And oh yeah, need a great tuner in the unit as well.

Price range - at the center of it all, I don't think I'd need to pay more than 300 ish. I'm currently leaning towards a digitech RP 355, or a Korg Ax3000g. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on something else that might fit my needs. Both of the units I'm thinking about are overkill, but it might be nice to have all of the funtionalities at some point. From my use of the DOD VGS50, I basically only used the Wah, noise gate, delay, and chorus, and tuner. I don't want another DOD VGS50 (though I know there's one on ebay right now)- the wah was weak. I want to upgrade, and try something new. I'm guessing that processors have come a long way since I bought that thing - lol.
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Postby Blue Jay » September 15th, 2010, 5:20 am

Welcome. :D

I think your choices are good, maybe someone else will chime in with actual experiences. A used Boss GT8 would be OK.
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Postby slejhamer » September 15th, 2010, 12:08 pm

seebee wrote:I'm very happy with my amp for distortion. I'd really just need delay, maybe flange, wah pedal, volume control, and a noise gate run through the effects loop without sucking too much out of the tone for my dirty sounds. For clean, well my amp's clean is weak (plus, I normally play an Ibanex RG.) So, clean, I'd probably wanna a few choices for modeling, not sure what,


For the way you're using it, as a pedal board and not so much as an amp modeler, the Digitech RP500 or the Boss ME-70 are worth a look. I was in a similar situation and went with the Boss - I got a great deal, and it has a smaller form factor so it fits easily in my gig bag. And the amp modeling is pretty usable too, if you want to play around with that.
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Postby seebee » September 15th, 2010, 7:06 pm

Thanks for the replies. One more requirement:
I must be able to bypass the unit's modeling altogether. The dirty channel on my amp is decent enough to not care about modeling, I just want to cream it out with a few effects like delay, chorus, and run the noise gate. I'll check out the rp500 and the boss models. Thanks again.
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Postby cnev » September 16th, 2010, 5:38 am

For what it's worth my instructor has a ME-70 and loves it. He's been playing for years in many, many bands and playing all kinds of music and used to use the individual pedals but now swears by the ME-70.
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Postby seebee » September 19th, 2010, 7:10 am

Ok, so here's my current deal:
I'm eyeing up the Digitech Rp 500, or Rp 1000.

I want the modeling for a practice amp, and also for my rig's clean channel.
I want the stompboxability for my rig's dirty channels (no need for any modeling there)

I'm trying to figure out the big differences in the two models, and it looks like for my usage, the rp 1k is the way to go since I can bypass the mfx's modeling via footswitch?
So, I can set up the mfx in the effects loop, and thruough a footswitch, I can control what pre-amp is being used. Anyone know if I've got that right? I'd like to be able to bypass My head's clean channel, but use my head's dirty channel all via foot controller. I think the rp 500 only allows this via a small button (not footswitchable.)

Anyone know if I've got this correct?
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Postby colin rp » September 20th, 2010, 8:35 am

No you can bypass on a rp 500 with the footswitch. It's on the top left of the unit.
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Postby slejhamer » September 20th, 2010, 9:26 am

Actually that footswitch bypasses the unit entirely; the amp/cab bypass on the RP500 is indeed a small button.

From the manual:

Bypass/Tuner Footswitch
This footswitch bypasses all of the RP500's effects sending an unprocessed signal out all of the
outputs. Pressing and holding the Bypass footswitch accesses the RP500's chromatic tuner. The
Displays will provide feedback for the tuning function (see page 2 for more info on using the
Tuner)

7. System Buttons
There are three system buttons: AMP/CABINET BYPASS, PEDALBOARD, and STORE.
• AMP/CABINET BYPASS – When this button is lit, the internal amplifiers and cabinets are
bypassed in all RP500 presets
• PEDALBOARD – When this button is lit, the 5 numbered footswitches turn the effects
labeled above them on and off. When this button is not lit, these footswitches select the
five presets in the active bank.
• STORE – Press this button to begin the store/copy procedure.


But do you really need footswitchable amp/cab bypass when you are intending to run into an amp? It seems to me that the amp/cab sims tend to work best when run into an full-range, flat response system, like a PA, whereas the pedalboard mode is intended for running into an amp. On the ME70 I use the amp sims at church (running direct to the board) but I use the pedalboard mode at home into my guitar amp.
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Postby seebee » September 20th, 2010, 12:33 pm

slejhamer wrote:But do you really need footswitchable amp/cab bypass when you are intending to run into an amp? It seems to me that the amp/cab sims tend to work best when run into an full-range, flat response system, like a PA, whereas the pedalboard mode is intended for running into an amp. On the ME70 I use the amp sims at church (running direct to the board) but I use the pedalboard mode at home into my guitar amp.


Thanks again for responding, all.
I hope I can explain what I'm thinking I'd LIKE this mfx to do -

I was hoping to run the processor only as a pedalboard into the amp's effects loop for using my amp's dirty channels. This way I can put my head before the fx.

I was hoping to be able to use the Rp's modeling features on the same amp's clean channel, using the amp as a monitor only (hopefully)

So, I was thinking I could bypass any amp/cab modeling, and use the stompbox feature only when I had channel 2 (dirty) on the amp engaged.

And then, when I have channel one (clean) of my amp engaged, I could use the mfx's modeling capabilities.
My amp's footswitch allows me to use the two sep channels, and also, to engage / disengage the effects loop.

So, on my dirty channel, I would engage the effects loop of the amp, enable the stompbox mode and bypass any modeling of the fx unit.

On the clean channel, I would disengage the effects loop of the amp, and engage the modeling of the fx unit.

If this is a pipe dream, or it doesn't make logical sense to do, please let me know. Also, I can live with tweaking the fx unit to create some patches for my lackluster clean channel of the amp. If the rp 1k cannot do what I'm hoping it to do, then maybe I can just go with the rp 500 or the Boss ME 70, since essentially, I'll just be using the processor as an all in one stompbox, running through the fx loop of my gigging amp, but then using the same processor as a modeling unit for my practice amp

Lol, drummer just called, wants me to record something asap. I'll never have this thing settled in time.
One more thing - running the fx through the amp's loop for both channels is fine. I don't think fx should be used to cover up bad playing - although distortion and delay can make playing well seem a lil easier.
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Postby kent_eh » September 20th, 2010, 6:59 pm

The thing is, modellers will model an amp, cab and all.
And the clean channel of a guitar amp doesn't sound like a "neutral" PA, it sounds like a guitar amp.

So any amp model that you use will then be fed thru your amp which will colour the sound more. Unfortunately unless you tweak a lot (and carefully) that colour is the colour of mud :(
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Postby colin rp » September 20th, 2010, 8:55 pm

Ok from the manual page 8 there are diagrams that follow just google the manual. I have a RP 500 and it definitely doesn't do this.

Making Connections
There are lots of ways to connect the RP1000 to amps, effects, mixers, and other equipment. Before connecting the RP1000 to anything, make sure both your amp and the RP1000 are turned off.
Amp/Cabinet Bypass
The RP1000 lets you bypass its amp and cabinet tones so you can apply its effects to your own amp/cabinet tone. To bypass the RP1000 amp and cabinet tones in all presets, push the Amp/Cabinet Bypass button so it's lit. To utilize the RP1000 amp and cabinet tones, push the Amp/Cabinet Bypass button so it's not lit.
Amp Loop
The RP1000's Amp Loop lets you use an external amplifier or preamp with the RP1000's signal path instead of the RP1000's internal amps and cabinets. You can turn on the Amp Loop with the Amp Loop button on the left side of the matrix. With this button enabled, the external amp or preamp is placed in the signal path around internal amps and cabinets, so the internal amps and cabinets are totally bypassed when the Amp Loop is engaged. To enable the Amp Loop, follow these steps:
Press the 1. Amp Loop button on the left side of the effects matrix. When the LED on the Amp Loop button is lit, the Amp Loop is enabled and the connected device is now in the RP1000's effects chain. Internal Amp/Cabinets are basically bypassed when the Amp Loop is enabled.
Press the 2. Amp Loop button again to turn off the Amp Loop. Internal Amp/Cabinets are now again active in the RP1000's effects chain and the external device is bypassed.*
The Amp Loop can also be assigned to any of the 6-10 numbered footswitches for remote control operation during performance. To assign a footswitch to control the Amp Loop, follow these steps:
Press either 1. Edit button until the Expression row has been selected (indicated by the Expression row's LED lighting).
Rotate 2. Knob 1 until FS6 ASN - FS10 ASN appears in the Display. This selects which footswitch you are about to change the assignment for.
Rotate 3. Knob 2 until AMP LOOP appears in the Display.
Store your footswitch assignment to your preset. 4.
*Note: If the Amp/Cabinet Bypass button is enabled, internal amp and cabinet effects are bypassed in all presets regardless of whether the Amp Loop is disabled.
Also, if you attempt to enable the Amp Loop without connections being made, the display will briefly read no Loop indicating there are no connections made to the Amp Loop and the loop will not enable.
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Postby rparker » September 24th, 2010, 3:01 am

I hope I am not too late. I had a GT-6 before I knew a darned thing about effects. I sold it and bought the GT-10. (You can get used here and there for about $150 for the GT-6. $250 for the GT-8 and $350-$400 for the GT-10) the gt-10 has a much better user interface (my controversial opinion)).

I see GT-5,6,8 and 10s being used all over town. I think once people get tehm, they hold on to them so they don't have to make new patches all over again.

You can turn off the pre-amp on the GT-10. Pretty sure others too, but you'd have to look through manual online.

There is a difference between goiing out to PA, PC and any standard issue Guitar Amp. Here is what worked for me. I got the tone how I liked it going to PC and PA type monitors. I then adjusted my guitar amp to come as close to the GT-10 driven PA tone as I could. It's not 100% exact similar tone from platform to platform, but close enough that I rarely have to worry about it. Oh, and the other part of the equation. I constantly go line out as the "speaker cab sim". Just another measure of percieved control I have towards consistency.

The good point of this, btw, is that my amp that I use has tubes in the power amp and the pre-amp. Yes, it colors tone - even with my balancing act - but it's normally a positive. This amp does not have preamp bypass. No sweat.

As far as brands, I liked the GT-10 better than the Line-6 a few years ago. Probably why I selected the GT-10 without even trying Line 6's entry. That, and the GT-10 had a neat feature that was cool for two weeks. The EZ-Tone. I reverse-enginerred the resulting patches and have not use the feature in ages. Anyhow, Line-6 lovers love theirs, VOX lovers love theirs, so on and so forth. I'm even starting to hear marketing buzz about some new one called an "Eleven Rack" for about $800 although curious, I am an amatuer on my bext days and have already sent way too much money into the system.

Best of luck with your purchase,

Roy
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