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Opinions on locking tuners?

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Postby fleaaaaaa » June 15th, 2012, 11:46 pm

Ezra!

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-american-vintage-57-stratocaster-two-colour-sunburst/20998

Is that the kind of vintage one you meant? I read the specs and it says that the switch is only 3 way though it includes 5 way kit (which I wouldn't know how to sort, I'd prefer 5 way)

The other one I know with vintage specs and a 5 way switch is the Eric Johnson guitar, which I have played and was impressed with.
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Postby imalone » June 16th, 2012, 1:59 am

So far as I know the only difference between the three way and five way is that the five-way switch latches in the intermediate positions and they wire the same way. Funnily I was going to say the strat as Leo intended isn't necessarily what anyone thinks of as the classic strat and give exactly the original three way switch as an example.

I suppose their reasoning behind the 'American Standard' name is it's what they're pushing as the standard for a modern guitar, rather than the classic version of a particular model.
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Postby s1120 » June 16th, 2012, 3:55 am

Cat wrote:I'm confused (as always!). You guys do realize that there are those wheeled locks (Kluson) and those slotted locks, right? One is for keeping it tuned and the other is for changing strings easier. To tune the wheeled ones, you need to loosen them up, tune, and re-tighten. This is a hassle if you need to do it fast...and there's usually a little tool to fumble around with, too.

Cat


Ive never heard of those before cat, thanks. Seems like a real PITA to use. I mean realy... other then sloppy cheesy tuners..... do you ever realy get any tuning post creap at all? And if you wrap the strings right, after the first tuning or three strings are pretty stable on the post also. I guess the locking ones [lock the springs on.] are a advantege on the road incase you need to whip off a quick string change NOW in the middle of a set. I cant realy see how the one that locks the post in place has any real use now that there are good tuners out there.
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Postby Cat » June 16th, 2012, 6:46 pm

You're right...they don't make a whole lot of sense...unless you are selling them! But I am surprised that Kluson (good quality) makes them...on, well.

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Postby EzraplaysEzra » June 16th, 2012, 7:49 pm

fleaaaaaa wrote:Ezra!

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-american-vintage-57-stratocaster-two-colour-sunburst/20998

Is that the kind of vintage one you meant? I read the specs and it says that the switch is only 3 way though it includes 5 way kit (which I wouldn't know how to sort, I'd prefer 5 way)

The other one I know with vintage specs and a 5 way switch is the Eric Johnson guitar, which I have played and was impressed with.


Good Point, The Eric Johnson Strat is pretty damn close to a vintage reissue and in some respects a more accurate reproduction of a '57 than the AVRI '57with a few very good and useful improvements - Off hand; I know it has the graded string posts (whatever they call them - staggered?) that makes a string tree unnecessary, painted full steel block, 5 way, no cavity cover, vintage recesses, bigger contour, nitro, thinner head stock, quarter-sawn neck, tone on the bridge pickup and custom pickups. Probably a better guitar overall with a better resale value. The EJ also has the 12 inch radius board and medium frets, which is a nice modern touch for lead playing. For the extra 130 GBP (the difference might be more there) the EJ is a much sweeter deal than the AVRI. It's kind of like a the mods I would do if I had the money for a '57 and the balls to do it. I have a custom shop strat that is more like an early 60's and in all honesty the EJ is probably a better guitar for less than half the price ( BTW I did not pay $5000 for mine, no where near that) I'm just not a fan of the V necks - as much as I tried to convince myself otherwise.

PS -You would cry if you knew what the AVRI '57 sold for state side. I think the just replaced the dollar sign with a pound sign when they shipped them over. I was at Manny's in NYC a couple years ago and they had me on the hook for a brand new EJ in Oly white for $950 or about 600 GBP!
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Postby fleaaaaaa » June 17th, 2012, 1:55 am

Lol I'd have walked out of the store with it :P
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Postby EzraplaysEzra » June 17th, 2012, 8:18 am

I sent the proposal to the board, but she said no.
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Postby fleaaaaaa » June 17th, 2012, 2:13 pm

Pffft, women! Though I bet Ezra has a fair number of guitars :lol:
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Postby EzraplaysEzra » June 17th, 2012, 2:26 pm

Less then I used to, but way more than I use.
I have a few guitars that belonged to my father that I'll hold onto but I'm planning on getting my staff down to a few strat's and tele's soon. I have guitars sitting in my basement that haven't seen the light of day in years and I'm not that kind of guy.
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Postby guitarforlife » June 17th, 2012, 3:28 pm

Locking tuners are kind of a pain, I'm not sure I would buy a guitar that had them
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Postby fleaaaaaa » June 18th, 2012, 1:21 am

Well I got so tired of my Ibanez with locking tuners that I traded it in, I don't regret it at all though the only thing is I dont have the option using my whammy bar (my stratocaster has problems even though it can use a whammy, I just wouldn't) but I was never really into the whammy bar tricks anyway.
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Postby greybeard » June 25th, 2012, 10:41 am

The idea of locking tuners is to reduce the problems associated with winding the string around the tuner post. Most people seem to have too many winds around the post. This is not good for keeping the guitar in tune, if you're swinging on the vibrato handle.

There are several different approaches to locking. There's one that has a hole down the centre of the post. You push the string down the hole and out through a slot. Tighten the string and chop the excess off the back.
Wilkinson has two holes at 90° to one another. Poke the string through one of the holes, back around the post and through the other hole. Using the top hole first for the lower 3 strings and the bottom first for the top 3 strings apparently allows you to do away with string trees
Then there are the type with a pin to hold the string tightly. Some have a screw cap on the top others have a knob at the back.

The idea is to have as little string wrapped around the post as possible. It stops slipping when you push down on the whammy.
They all seem to have around 1/4 to 1/2 a turn on the post.

As soon as I can get around to it, I'm going to put some Schaller's on my Strat.
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Postby fleaaaaaa » June 26th, 2012, 11:24 am

Why not just make sure there's less wrap around on the string? It's not hard to do....
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Postby EzraplaysEzra » June 27th, 2012, 8:56 pm

fleaaaaaa wrote:Why not just make sure there's less wrap around on the string? It's not hard to do....


If anyone is interested...
I use the other tuner posts as guides when changing strings. I use the distance of the second nearest tuner post to the string I am changing. For instance, if I'm changing an A, I will cut the string at exactly the center of the G's tuner post then wind it from that length. You have to eye-ball it on the B and E (or D and G on a 3x3).
I use Vintage type Kluson's, but the concept will work with and mount with the exception of pre cutting the strings on some systems and preferences. Obviously, The distance of the wound part of the string increases as the diameter of the string decreases so you will have more mechanical connection where you need it. It works for me and lots of other dudes (and Ladies)
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Postby notes_norton » June 28th, 2012, 10:20 am

I have one guitar with Sperzel Trim-lok locking tuners (Parker DF524). I love it.

They work differently from most others. No lock on the bridge or nut, it's all done at the machine head. Less than one wind of string on the post and a thumb screw behind the tuner to hold the string. You simply put the string in the hole, finger tighten the lock, and tune. The string never overlaps itself. Without multiple windings of strings, there is less give/take/binding of the strings wound on the post.

Image

From Sperzel:
This is the ultimate in tuning keys. The locking feature eliminates the need for multiple string wraps, and trem users no longer need a locking nut that deadens string sustain and all annoying Allen screws and wrenches (added weight).

My Parker is the only guitar I have with a whammy bar. The string path is straight from the Sperzel tuners to the ball end of the string at the whammy/stop mechanism (with the exception of the tilt of the headstock). It also has a Graph-Tech nut.

The Parker holds it's tune much better than my Gibson, Epiphone and LTD, and it is the only one I have with a whammy.

If I didn't have to re-drill holes, I'd put Sperzels on all my guitars.

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