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Do you think the blues is too white?

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Postby Vic Lewis VL » August 24th, 2012, 11:00 am

Alan Green wrote:1. Most Blues begin with: "Woke up this morning..."


There was a cartoon in the NME back in the early to mid-70's that cracked me up.....six guys in black suits, all wearing shades, carrying a coffin with a guitar on top. Thought balloon coming from the coffin: "S***, apparently I DIDN'T wake up this mornin'........"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby s1120 » August 24th, 2012, 5:52 pm

Vic Lewis VL wrote:
Alan Green wrote:1. Most Blues begin with: "Woke up this morning..."


There was a cartoon in the NME back in the early to mid-70's that cracked me up.....six guys in black suits, all wearing shades, carrying a coffin with a guitar on top. Thought balloon coming from the coffin: "S***, apparently I DIDN'T wake up this mornin'........"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Vic



Love it!!!!!!!!!
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Postby Crow » August 25th, 2012, 6:46 am

Honeyboy wrote:How come we can't come up with a white guitarist, after 40 years, who is as good as T-Bone Walker, B.B. King, Albert Collins, Otis Rush, Albert King, Lonnie Johnson, or Robert Johnson?


Who says "we" haven't? "As good as" is way too subjective. Clapton plays pretty good blues, even when he's not playing 12-bars. Same with Ry Cooder. Mike Bloomfield played pretty good blues. Put SRV on the list, although I'm not a fan -- I much prefer Jimmie, who seems to play twice as much music with half the notes. Bob Brozman, pretty good blues player. Muddy Waters didn't hire Bob Margolin because of his good looks. Muddy referred to Johnny Winter as "my son." Bonnie Raitt is way underrated. John Hammond plays the stuff right. Sonny Landreth can be brilliant. Roy Rogers can be brilliant. Mick Taylor, when he was with the Stones.... The point, of course, is that the blues does not discriminate between black and white.

My blues heroes are Muddy, Son House and Blind Willie Johnson, but if we think the blues died with Muddy, we miss what's going on in our own era.
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Postby dogbite » August 28th, 2012, 9:22 am

http://www.desktopblues.lichtlabor.ch/

a great thread. and I agree with Allan!!!

I love and play the first wave blues. as a kid I never knew about it until the Rolling Stones and Cream were played on the American radio. I guess where I lived black musicians weren't played, unless it was Chubby Checker. the Brits turned me on to the great American genre of blues.
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Postby Liontable » August 29th, 2012, 5:04 am

Crow wrote:My blues heroes are Muddy, Son House and Blind Willie Johnson, but if we think the blues died with Muddy, we miss what's going on in our own era.


I loved that sentence to be quite honest. It really captures the spirit that's often lost.
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Postby CitiZenNoir » September 15th, 2012, 11:32 pm

No, sorry.... I have to agree with Honeyboy.
I mean, white people trying to be polite or apologetic saying that color doesn't matter. BULL!
Yeah, John Hammond Jr. plays it right.... Closest to Robert Johnson than I ever heard anyone else.
B U T,
It's TOO PERFECT!
He can play the stuff, but not with the same FIRE as RJ. Sorry.

Clapton vs Freddie King.... COME ON!
Freddie was, THE MAN!
Clapton is a vanilla version at best.
(Though I can't take away from his accomplishments in tone).

I absolutely LOVE Brit Blues. But, put on some original Black American Blues after listening to any White Blues players....
Forget about it!

I think John Frusciante is one of the best modern players around.
Recently I had a hankerin' for his stuff.... Listened to it for a few hours.
Then I thought - he was influenced heavily by Hendrix.... I'll put him on.
WOW!
JF doesn't even come close to Jimi!

John Lee Hooker was supposed to be notoriously hard to follow.
Why? By most accounts (of people I've played with and of people on this forum), he only played ONE CHORD.
So, how could he be hard to follow?
Well, I have to say that only White musicians said that of him. No Black backing musicians had any probs with him.

Without trying to sound racist - They GOT IT, and we don't. Sorry.
It's a shame that their culture moved away from guitar-centric music.
Imagine what those rap and hip-hop artists could have done in the Blues genre!
Our loss!

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Postby Crow » September 18th, 2012, 11:02 am

CitiZenNoir wrote:Without trying to sound racist - They GOT IT, and we don't. Sorry.
It's a shame that their culture moved away from guitar-centric music.
Imagine what those rap and hip-hop artists could have done in the Blues genre!
Our loss!


Was hoping someone else might respond, but...

If "they GOT IT' and we don't, Ken, why do you think that is? Please explain why black rap and hip-hop artists would have excelled at blues. Please explain your racial theories. Be as specific as possible. I want to understand this.

My own theory: If you listen with your eyes instead of your ears (not naming any names, just sayin'), that's YOUR loss.
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Postby cnev » September 18th, 2012, 12:28 pm

I know responding to this might be a mistake but I will make a couple comments. I can see where Ken is coming from and to some degree I agree, but it may be more a cultural thing than strictly a race issue.

But I do believe everyone is born equal in this world but everyone is not born with equal talents or even the ability to excel at certain things so maybe (and I don't know what that is) they possess something the rest of us don't have.

Since I don't particulary like the blues it's not a problem for me.
Last edited by cnev on September 19th, 2012, 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TRGuitar » September 18th, 2012, 7:03 pm

Where the stickey wicket comes in is this. If someone can excell at something because of race, they can be poor at something else because of race. The door swings both ways. I'm more for the culture thing. Not so much DNA or skin color but upbringing. Ones culture.
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Postby jason brann » September 20th, 2012, 4:28 pm

this whole thread creeps me out a little.
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Postby TRGuitar » September 20th, 2012, 5:25 pm

jason brann wrote:this whole thread creeps me out a little.

Ditto!
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Postby Rocket Dog » September 21st, 2012, 12:36 am

jason brann wrote:this whole thread creeps me out a little.


Yes, I know what you mean.
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Postby cnev » September 21st, 2012, 7:39 am

I don't think there is anything creepy about it other than being a topic that can be sensitive but from a sociological standpoint I think it's an interesting topic.

To me you can use a similar argument about basketball. Are there white players that play as well as black players sure but the overwhelming majority are black so it's just more than coincidence. So what is that something else and is it the same type of something else that gives a black blues player that little something that whites don't have?

I don't have an answer but I wouldn't doubt that there is something there and I don't think it's strictly cultural.

And I do also believe that you can be gentically prediposed to excel at certain things and also predisposed to lack ability at other tasks.

I do not believe we are all capable of umlimited success in anything we do just by putting in the time.
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Postby Rocket Dog » September 22nd, 2012, 7:46 am

cnev wrote:I don't think there is anything creepy about it other than being a topic that can be sensitive but from a sociological standpoint I think it's an interesting topic.


Yep, I know what you mean. Why do people keep saying that I am fickle? :lol:
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Postby Crow » September 26th, 2012, 7:58 am

cnev wrote:...it may be more a cultural thing than strictly a race issue.


Culture is learned behavior. Language is a part of culture. No one pops out of the womb speaking French -- or playing blues. Anyone can learn a language, and most people say that music is a language. One might learn it with an accent -- but everyone has an accent.

There is no cultural obstacle to prevent a white person from learning the blues language. True, we do not have the "advantage" of 700 years of subjugation, generations of malnutrition, centuries of public humiliation, repeated patterns of shattered family structure, unnatural patterns of imprisonment, and so on. This is the basis of a powerful argument in favor of African American superiority in the blues, if anyone cared to make that argument in a rational way. Even so, you can't tell me that any individual black blues superstar is drawing upon that cultural heritage at any given time. When Hooker plays "Boom Boom," he's not thinking, "Wow, 700 years of slavery." When Freddie King plays "Hideaway," he's not thinking, "Man, if Mom had eaten fresh vegetables when she was carrying me, I'd be about 50 points smarter." Music doesn't work that way.

There is no cultural barrier to learning the language of the blues.

To me you can use a similar argument about basketball. Are there white players that play as well as black players sure but the overwhelming majority are black so it's just more than coincidence. So what is that something else and is it the same type of something else that gives a black blues player that little something that whites don't have?


"That little something" is pretty subjective, but the genetic facts are not. At this writing, geneticists cannot even agree on a genetic foundation for the concept of race, much less a genetic cause of talent for basketball, or blues.

...I do also believe that you can be gentically prediposed to excel at certain things and also predisposed to lack ability at other tasks.

I do not believe we are all capable of umlimited success in anything we do just by putting in the time.


That's a different question from the racial issue -- similar, however, in that there are no genetic answers at this time. (My spouse is a genetics professional, so I keep on top of the genetic headlines, at least, and racial/talent "genes" tend to be headline-makers.) Science may prove otherwise some day, but so far it hasn't.

You can believe anything you want. I believe Mitt Romney is a unicorn. I believe science will prove that some day, and I will keep on believing that until I am proved wrong. Belief doesn't make it so, however.
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